Why is arwen immortal

When Arwen chose to stay in Middle Earth because of the hope she had for a brighter future, she also chose to be counted among the race of Man. Arwen isn't necessarily dying because of the Ring , but now that she is mortal, she is dying through the slow decaying of time.

Arwen also faces the same fate as all those in Middle Earth should the Ring Bearer fail his mission. So in that way, her fate is tied to the Ring. Elrond believed the world of Men would soon fall and that there was no hope, so he chose not to fight in their battle. It is only after Arwen makes her decision to become mortal that Elrond mended the blade that cut the Ring in The Reforging of Narsil.

This sword would allow Aragorn to command those that dwell in the mountains—the Army of the Dead—so that the Free Peoples of Middle Earth would have a fighting chance. If Arwen had not stayed, Elrond would not have reforged the blade, nor would he have confronted Aragorn and told him to gain command of the dead. During Aragorn's twentieth year, he met Arwen for the first time in Rivendell , where he lived under Elrond's protection. Arwen never broke faith with Aragorn, even when he went to war.

While the War in the South raged on, Arwen wove a banner for Aragorn, which would become his standard after he became king. Arwen and Aragorn in the films.

They brought to him a banner of black cloth : a gift made by Arwen, and a sign that encouraged him to take the difficult path. After marrying Aragorn , she bestowed upon Frodo Baggins a gift; her place on the ships to Valinor. She bore Aragorn's son, Eldarion , and several unnamed daughters, some time in the Fourth Age. She was years old. The name Arwen means "Noble maiden", from Sindarin ar a "royal, noble" and wen "maiden". The Elves maintain their realms, and their power in Middle-earth, thought the Three Rings they possess.

These Rings are tied to the One Ring, however. While the One Ring was missing, they could use their Three Rings with impunity. But then the One Ring was found. So no matter what happens to the One Ring, the time of the Elves is over. Elrond has to depart from Middle-earth and go to the Undying Lands. To the children of Elrond a choice was also appointed: to pass with him from the circles of the world; or if they remained, to become mortal and die in Middle-earth.

For Elrond, therefore, all chances of the War of the Ring were fraught with sorrow. Arwen is Elrond's daughter, and thus must choose between going to the Undying Lands with her father and living forever, or staying in Middle-earth with Aragorn and eventually dying. All Elrond's children must make the same choice ; but only Arwen decides to stay in Middle-earth and become a mortal.

Although Luthien, who was obviously not Elrond's daughter, made the same choice, as far as we know, this decision was thereafter limited to Elrond's kids. Sign up to join this community. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top.

Stack Overflow for Teams — Collaborate and share knowledge with a private group. Create a free Team What is Teams? Learn more. Why can Arwen decide her mortality? Ask Question. Asked 8 years, 9 months ago. Active 3 years, 3 months ago. Viewed 84k times. Elros became the first king of Numenor and thus the forefather of Aragorn; because he was human and he married a human , his descendants were mortal. In Elrond's case, things remained complicated.

He married an Elf, but mortality was such a "default" that even his children were given a choice: to leave the world when he did and be counted as Elves, or to remain in the world after he left and become mortal.

Thus, Arwen became mortal because she remained in Middle-earth instead of crossing the Sea with her father. Inasmuch as she stayed behind because of her love for Aragorn, that love led to her mortality. The whole "you can sail on the boat in my place, Frodo" bit in RotK is a bit misleading, and Tolkien discusses it in his letters.

He says explicitly that one's right to go can't be transfered as easily as that. Rather, Arwen may have been the first to recognize that sailing West might help to heal Frodo, and she might have used her choice as an argument in favor of allowing him to go.

It was Gandalf, though, who ended up having the final word on the matter as representative of the Lords of the West , and presumably it was he who chose to allow Bilbo to go as well and eventually Sam.

I can't comment on the bit in the movie version of FotR: I think it's pretty weird, to tell you the truth, and it's one of the parts of Arwen's expanded role there that I could most easily do without. I have a feeling that it was a throwaway line that won't be mentioned again in RotK, but it's probably safest just to wait and see. Steuard Jensen. She made this Choice about 60 years before she met Frodo. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue. Ok, say she chose 'mortality'.

Could she technically just go on living In the world? I know Elros lived for years but died eventually, Perhaps Arwen would also be forced to do so, but I wondered if there was any kind of cap on how long she could remain on Earth. As for her brothers, I know the jurys still out on whether they had the same choice or not.

Regards, Douglas. If she did not voluntarily 'die' when she chose to, she would have died eventually of old age if that is what you mean by "forced". How long she could have continued living is unknown. It is written that Elros was not differently endowed for the potential for life than Elrond, so presumably Arwen could have continued living for quite some time, but she was mortal in the end and would eventually die. Where in the book does it say that? As far as I can recall, Arwen has nothing to do with Frodo until after her wedding, when she gives him a jewel that in some way will comfort him.

But Frodo was not in imminent danger of death at that time -- indeed, as far as he knew he was healed.

Later, on the anniversary of his wounding, he found out that he was not. The latter. And again, this whole meta-theology seems impossibly Orwellian and deterministic from the perspective of an Elf. What would they say to an elf that wanted to remain in M-E and wanted to retain his or her birthright? Sounds more like Frank Herbert morality than Catholicism. Keep in mind these guys probably don't have a shot at going to Paradise, at least not under the "pessimistic" theory of Xtian eschatology.

I am of course interpreting the Elves as "theoretical beings" compatible with his own Catholic monotheism, the way JRRT did in trying to flesh out their eschatology. Given that his wife was an elf and both his parents ended up as immortals also! Or were they both mortal but lived on the far side of Aman so as not to contaminate it with their old-people-smell? I can't remember off hand.

Elwing, Earendil's wife, was not an Elf. Regardless of whether Tuor became 'immortal' or not, Idril was not a 'mortal' and never became a 'mortal'. All the more, that scene in the movie on the far banks of the river where Arwen almost seems to give up some kind of life force to revive Frodo didn't make any sense at all.

Which brings me back to my original point, two generations of immortality on both sides. Mortality is clearly a recessive trait. Yeh, like, it wasn't in the book. Elrond was not 'forced' to die. In fact, it was a common virtue of the Dunedain to decide for themselves when they die. Aragorn did so. Only in later corrupted times it has changed. I'm a hunter. Apparently one of the lesser known benefits of being a dunadan was immunity to depression.

Two generations of immortality on both sides? When Dior was born both of his parents were mortal. When Earendil was born his father was mortal.

When Elwing was born her mother was an 'immortal', but her father was most likely, Conrad disagrees mortal. Both Earendil and Elwing were mortal when their sons were born. Accoriding to the Judgement of Manwe mortality would be the dominant trait, as anyone with any mortal blood was mortal, unless specifically granted other doom. The "drop of blood" rule, eh? What did they call peredhil with a remote orcish ancestor?

Remember orcs were descended from elves and so may in fact not count as "mortals" even if a high Morgoth Element in their diet might have caused them to fade faster the few who didn't get eaten by other orcs.

For my take on this sort of hair-splitting by JRRT and readers c. Khamul's dialogue in the "on Mount Doom" post. The only evidence of Orcish interbreeding was by Saruman, so the above situation does nto exist. Actually, we don't know the exact origins of Orcs. The silmarillion says no more than they may have been corrupted Elves. In later writings Tolkien speculated on other origins. Geez, you guys need more of a sense of humor.

Mortality was not an "attribute", especially not a curse. Anyone who had any mortal ancestry shared that gift, which the Valar were powerless to take away and probably would not have wanted to take away. The circular food chain orcs getting eaten by orcs would further increase the concentration of said Morgoth Element in those surviving orcs, hence resulting in even faster fading Elrond was half human, but he by choice took the fate of elvenkind, rather than mankind.

His brother Elros chose the fate of mankind. The real difference between elves and men is what happens after the body dies. The elves are recycled and men are not. They have a fate beyond Arda, although that fate is not known. Bob Kolker. I'd say they were 'indeterminate'. They eventually both chose immortality and thus in some sense were never 'mortal'. They might have had the 'capacity to be mortal' had the choice of kindred been denied to them or if they had chosen differently.

Christopher and others have taken this to mean that Dior must have been mortal Facts not in evidence. Tolkien wrote that Dior had the same fate as the Elves, that Dior was Peredhil, and that the Peredhil were given a choice. All three of those references are from older texts, but I'd still argue that 'old texts' outweigh 'no texts' I was going to say Luthien is the exception, but technically I suppose she wasn't a purebread elf, being Melian's daughter.

So what's your point? That was not the action of the Valar. It was Eru himself who decided to give Elrond the chance to turn down the gift and share the fate of the Elven-kindred. I think you are taking my comment out of context. He was the first of the Peredhil as he had mixed blood. I probably never should have given you that passage. I will note that Dior 'grew up' in less time than an Elf being married by thiry. I would not. I would say they were mortal until they were given a choice and indeed they grew up like 'mortals', not Elves, as they were wed at around 25 years of age.

I would not say that the Judgement of Manwe is 'no text' just as there is no text that states Dior was given a choice , and regardless of CT's comments on it it is the logical conclusion from the text that Dior was mortal it could be argued that Dior may later have been given a choice, but this would have to be after his death and after Earendil and Elwing were granted Choices.

Except for Arwen herself of course. Raises the question - was Elros an immortal who became mortal or a mortal who stayed mortal.

And how would you tell the difference? Is there a difference? Arwen was not an 'immortal'. Luthien was an absolute exception. Letter Elros was a mortal who stayed mortal. Could you explain please?

I thought she was. She had access to some great face cream for a mortal I'm not sure what connotations you are reading into what I wrote. I agree with the context of what you said I think we agree on these issues so I'm not sure what was 'out of context'. The passage does not mention Dior at all, but yes I agree that it indicates that anyone of part mortal ancestry would be mortal unless allowed to choose otherwise.

However, we aren't told whether Dior got to choose. And at that